Whidbey Writers Workshop | Fiction Interviews

First, There Is A River, is a fine example of a novel that keeps a high-tension level throughout the book. From the very first paragraph, the reader has much to be concerned about. That worry, that oh-no-what-happens-next feeling isn't just threaded through. Conflict and worry is in such abundance you might as well settle in and read the book in a long afternoon. Even better, the conflict doesn't end in a tidy, predictable knot. Kathy Steffen's second novel, Jasper Mountain will be coming out in November 2008.

SF: First off: Congratulations on your first novel First, There Is A River, and your forthcoming novel, Jasper Mountain.

"Long Ago Emma settled with the fact she was headed straight to hell."- the first line of First, There Is A River, and an alluring, excellent first line. What was your experience with that first line? Many authors struggle with the beginning or end, etc. How did you come up with that line? Did it come to you before or after or during the writing of the book?

KS: You know, I never have any problems coming up with a first line. Now the rest of the book, that's the challenge. Seriously, they come to me somewhere during the writing of the book, never right away, but after I'm well into the whole thing. And I never focus on thinking one up, they just hit me in the head. I wish I could take credit, say I work hard to get just the right line, but like writing, I feel mostly that I'm just a pen. It all comes from someplace else. The good stuff, anyway. I work on technique and editing and pace and all the rest. But the ideas? Not sure...

SF: Did writing about an abused woman affect you in any way? What kind of research did you need to do for such? (Hopefully not first-hand knowledge.)

KS: When I started the book, I had trouble comprehending how such a situation develops. I always think, "get out of there" or "just hit back!" which I realized was my trying to fix the problem rather than understand it. I really wanted to delve in to the situation and see it, actually live it (in my imagination, of course) from both sides.

I did lots of research on domestic abuse and violence, and I am still shocked at how prevalent it is. Did you know one out of every four women in the United States has been in a domestic abuse situation? That statistic is staggering! And, abuse seems to be the one thing no one wants to talk about. There is so much shame attached to it that people who are in the situation, whether abused or abuser, will oftentimes deny anything is happening, especially to themselves.

That was where I put Emma at the beginning. She thinks it's her fault, she thinks she does deserve it, and she doesn't stand up and say it's not acceptable. At least, not at first. Even her uncle turns away from it for years.

I worried that readers might have difficulty connecting with someone so shut down, but it was very important to me to write that situation without worrying about drama or storytelling, but to be an honest voice in what a person in the situation is going through. And Emma is shut down, in denial, but that gave her such a wonderful character arc to develop throughout the book.

SF: Your historical novel displays the lack of protection for rights of women and children. When doing your research, what did you find out about this that you didn't know?

KS: It's more the individual, true stories that just floored me. It's one thing to talk in the abstract about lack of rights for women and children, but when reading about a socialite whose husband had her institutionalized, divorced her, and she never saw her children again. She used to wait to get a glimpse of them at the mansion gate when the carriage passed. The human and real face and story shocked me. I literally burst into tears in the library.

SF: How important was research to the novel?

KS: Research made this novel come to life, I think. I researched not only the historical time period, but riverboats, the culture, the life. At one point I made a blueprint of The Spirit, deck by deck. I needed to understand where everyone was and how they moved about the boat as it traveled down river.

By studying piloting, Briggs' character came to life. And when I gained a thorough understanding of the engineering of the boats and all the details and risk involved, I understood Gage and the kind of man it would take to be so meticulous yet perfectly happy surrounded by coal dust, cows and pigs!

SF: At what point did you say, "This is done;" how did you know your novel was finished?

KS: I still cross out words and change things when I read it. So, never. It's finished when you run out of time, I guess. I'd read that you know you are finished when you are so sick of the manuscript, if you look at it again you'll light a match and burn it up. I think that's true. They take that much work, and then more.

SF: How about your highest high as an author?

KS: The e-mail of acceptance from Medallion. I was so beside myself with joy, I couldn't put an intelligent sentence together for two hours!

SF: Your lowest low as a writer?

KS: That would have to be my first "real" rejection. Getting a query letter rejected is one thing, but when someone asks for your full manuscript, keeps it for months (so you know they are considering it) and sends it back, well, that's a pretty hard moment when you hold the self-addressed stamped box in your hands.

SF: Could you talk a bit about your search for an agent and how you found Medallion books?

KS: I got an agent the traditional way, sending queries then pieces of my manuscript when asked. I did some pitching when I had the chance and pitched the book to a Medallion editor at a conference. Five months later, I got an e-mail on a Friday evening asking to verify my address, as they were sending me a publishing contract. So really, I sold the book myself. That was a shocker!

It took me two years to write the book (including research) and three years to sell it. I waited a year and a half after acceptance before seeing it in print. And this is not an unusual time frame.

SF: Could you tell us a little bit about your marketing plan? I.e., did you hire a publicist? What are you doing to promote your book? How much promotion has the publisher provided?

KS: After costing out a publicist, I decided to do it myself. I have a background in advertising and marketing, so thought this might be something I could handle. I did a press kit, which I modify to a specific engagement and send to all newspapers, radio stations and TV stations in a geographic radius around a signing or speaking event. I've had lots of luck with the newspapers and usually get a blurb or article in at least one. I set up book signings at bookstores, gift stores that sell books, holiday fairs, and writing conferences. I have also done several talks at libraries and two colleges, and I set up some teaching and panelist sessions at writing conferences. My schedule for the next few months is terrifying! But something I've waited years to do.

The publisher has done much on their end, with running ads, presenting my book at the BEA in New York, sending my book out for reviews, and recently when I walked into a Barnes and Noble in Madison (near my home) I was on the "New in Paperback" table! Of course, I took a photo.

More and more, with publishers of all sizes, if you don't have a name built up, much of promotion--at least the part about going places, speaking, and meeting readers--is increasingly up to the author. I was terrified at first, and convinced I was too shy to do any of this, but once I got started it became easier. I'd tell any new author to do whatever feels comfortable. Start out small, where you are surrounded by family and friends, and build from there. Before you know it, you'll be signing books for hours and loving it.

SF: Any tips for novelists searching for agents and publishers?

KS: NEVER, ever, ever give up. Ever. Ever. Ever.

It's all the stuff you hear that works. Research the agent, know what they are looking for, write a killer query, at all times be professional, and I would add to that don't disqualify the unusual ways. I constantly hear that no one ever sells on a pitch at a conference. Well, I'd disagree with that, wholeheartedly! In this business there are so many rumors and stories, but honestly, it never works the same way for any two people. Keep that in mind at all times. Take everything in as information and then never give up. Ever.

Did I mention, never give up, ever? SF: Was there any point you almost gave up? And if so, what brought you back in gear?

KS: Yes, I don't know if I'd call it giving up, but interest waning. When I realized how much work it all is, and for not much money (at least, not at first) I kept thinking, what am I doing? But then I got the Jasper Mountain cover and was thrilled all over again. I write (like all writers) for the love of it. For the thought that someone is going to pick up my book, spend their precious time reading it, and bring their experiences to the book as they read to finish it. That, to me, is such a gift.

And having a deadline helps get you back in gear--QUICK!

SF: After the book was accepted, how much work did you still need to put into it? And how much work did you do with your editor?

KS: Well, there has been quite a waiting game, and then the edits need to be done very quickly. I had two editors and was anxious to see what someone in the business would do with my manuscript. The big bonus is the outside, professional eye. They see things that are missing that are inside your head but somehow never made it to the page. I didn't realize I hadn't described several of my characters. I saw them clear as day, but never stopped to give any details!

One thing that shocked me is how many habit words I have. And they change throughout my manuscripts so they are hard to find. That was kind of embarrassing, I thought I'd caught them all.

SF: Can you tell the story of your first book signing?

KS: My book takes place on a riverboat on the Ohio River, so I decided it was just a natural to go to the Ohio Sternwheel Festival. I had a booth and books and signed for three days in 100+ degree heat and humidity. It's a rush when someone wants to take a photograph with you, or of you signing their book, and an entirely different feeling when someone reads the back cover, throws the book down in front of you and says, "This isn't at all what I thought!" and stalks away.

This was a case where being surrounded by family and friends was a blessing. The festival was a sort of trial by fire, so now my bookstore signings feel much easier.

SF: People are always curious about successful author's writing habits. Your writing habits include a 4am wake-up call. Can you describe more (how often, how long do you write, how do you get in gear, what does your writing area look like?)

KS: I am lucky enough to have a room all my own for writing. It's crammed with books, paper, author action figures (my Jane Austen action figure with the writing desk and quill pen accessories is my favorite) and cats. I get up at four, meditate for a few minutes, and then read yesterdays scene and start writing the next scene, or a new section of a scene. I write long hand with a fountain pen (something about that works for me). I usually write for two hours and then take a shower. After that I type the scene in my computer while my hair is drying. I go to work and pull out the scene at lunch and edit. After dinner, I type in the edits, reprint, read, and do another edit. Then I type that in. That usually takes two hours or so. Then I go to bed and hope that the preservation fairy visits me and gives me great ideas while I sleep. At 4am the next morning, NPR wakes me up to start it all again.

The weekend is my time to read the chapter I've written over the week. I put it in outline form (so I can keep track of what I've written) and look at each chapter from an overall story perspective. I label each scene as to whether it does the things a scene must do, advance the story, internal conflict, external conflict, and I highlight a scene if it is full of action or particularly powerful or emotional. I try not to go too far without having one of those types of scenes. This process is a way of stepping back and seeing the whole and judging the pacing without the details.

SF: I know you are also an artist. I've heard from other people who are both writer and artist say they can only concentrate on one at a time. How does that work for you?

KS: I am all over the place as far as my art goes. I make jewelry, stained glass, and recently I've started doing mixed media and textile art. And then I combine all of the above (kind of like my novel-definitely cross-genre-that's why it's labeled mainstream fiction). My art is my release. And I usually have several projects going at once. I do work on these during my writing.

As far as writing goes I have one I'm actually writing (WIP or work in progress), and one or maybe more that's in the idea stage. Each book is in a plastic milk crate, and as I get ideas or thoughts, I write them down on index cards and throw them in. However, I don't work on any at the idea stage while I'm doing the actual writing of my WIP unless an idea pops in and I just gotta write a scene. When that happens, I follow it. But my WIP gets all my serious, single attention.

I get bored if I don't have several things going on at once.

SF: Your book covers are gorgeous. How much input did you have in the process of designing the artwork for your book?

KS: None. It's all in the hands of the publisher. Now, I will say that I get an artist spec sheet to fill out. The artists at Medallion don't have time to read all the books they do covers for, so the author describes characters, gives the gist of the book (and some of what I wrote ended up on the back cover) and then they ask us to attach a couple of scenes that will give the artist the feel of the book and writing.

One of the scenes I attached, where Gage is remembering an earlier riverboat explosion and is remembering everyone who died, happens on a part of the river called "Shadow's Pass." That is what ended up on the cover. Adam Mock, the Marketing Director at Medallion, created my cover. I'll tell you, I imagined my book cover a thousand times, but never did I think it would be so beautiful, reflect my book so perfectly, or look anything like what it does. I cried for 20 minutes when I first saw it, I was so overcome.

SF: Where and when do you get your best ideas?

KS: I wish I knew that. I'd visit it more often. They just come. In the shower, on a bike, driving. They always seem to pop up when I'm not actually writing, which I find pretty interesting.

SF: Name authors and influences?

KS: Oh boy, I'm an avid reader and read about 40 books a year. I like to read bestsellers just to see what is selling and I am seldom disappointed. I like to alternate a "serious" book with a lighter one just to keep on my toes and entertained. But I have to admit, I find myself cheating and reaching for commercial and entertaining quite a bit more often than any others. This is, of course, all my opinion:

Pat Conroy-one of my all time favorites. I cry every time I read The Prince of Tides prologue, because the writing is so incredible. Anytime I need inspiration on writing description, I go to his books

Harper Lee-To Kill a Mockingbird-one of the greatest books ever written. She never lets her writing or herself get in the way of the story, which makes it so honest and powerful.

Mark Twain-his humor and self-depreciation and sarcasm are treasures I enjoy again and again. Huckleberry Finn is also on my list of greatest books ever written.

Dennis LeHane-this guy can twist and twist and write one thing but you think it's another. Plus, his writing is so compelling. He sets up atmosphere like no one I've ever read.

Ken Bruen-another mystery writer, but I'd label him (if I had to) as literary mystery. His sparse writing style and dialogue is amazing. He says in one sentence of dialogue what it takes other writers to say in pages of exposition. His main and continuing character, Jack Taylor, is deeply flawed and screws up so badly, yet I want him to get his act together and read on and on to see if he'll ever straighten up. Bruen is a brilliant, brilliant writer.

Dean Koontz-he has started a new genre-spiritual thrillers. I hadn't read him in awhile, and was pleasantly surprised when I picked up his latest books. Odd Thomas is one of my all time favorite fictional characters. I fell in love with that guy--and he's not real. But Koontz, in his current books, writes characters that the reader instantly connects with and cares about.

Agatha Christie-she's when I fell in love with reading. When I was in high-school, I read every single book she'd written.

Anita Shreve-Fortune's Rocks and Sea Glass are two of my all time favorites. She weaves the story beautifully and her historical detail is so smoothly integrated it's just part of the story. Every sentence has levels and subtext that is so subtle, you don't see it unless you look. Hard. I love her writing. Gorgeous.

Tess Gerritson-my new favorite. I've read three and can't put them down. She's great with pacing, suspense, action.

Stephen King-the master, in my opinion. Although I've not been able to finish some of his horror novels because they were just too, well, horrible. But I read and re-read The Stand (another on my list of greatest books ever written) and fell in love with Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption way before Morgan Freeman put his wonderful voice to the story. And The Green Mile? We read it at work, and were insane to get the next installment. What fun that was!

The Kite Runner, Water for Elephants and The Memory Keepers' Daughter are three I've just read and I'm sure will read again soon, just to see what makes them work so beautifully. And about a hundred others, but I'm running out of room!

SF: About the process of publishing your book - what surprised you? What did you learn?

KS: My goal is to write/publish a book a year, and my publisher accepts proposals from its in-house authors. A proposal in my publisher's case is a high-concept blurb, a full synopsis (20+ pages) and the first three chapters. No longer do I have the luxury to take several years to come up with my ideas and research and write. I always thought once I got an agent and sold, I would never have to do a synopsis again. What I learned is they are the cornerstone of what an author needs to produce.

There is an artistic and creative side to this, for sure, but the big surprise was the business side. Seven years ago I quit my high-powered marketing job to write, thinking I was leaving all the business stuff behind me. And, for a while I did, but now I'm part of the publishing industry, and it is an industry. It's like coming full circle. The trick is to turn off the logic side when you need to be creative, and vice-versa.

SF: At what point did you decide that you were a writer - when did you say "I have arrived?"

KS: Still waiting...seriously, the bar keeps getting higher. I want to be on the New York Times Bestseller list. Then I might relax. And wow, do I have far to go!

SF: Any mistakes along the way you'd like to share with other writers?

KS: Oh gosh, so many, but everyone walks their own path with this. I would say that nothing you do is final, no mistake insurmountable, and they usually feel many times bigger than they actually are. I've worried over every little thing, and most was wasted worry. Just be honest, above board and yourself and you'll do fine. Ask for help from other writers and authors. If it weren't for my writing friends, I would still be steps behind.

And don't ever wait for anything. Be proactive, but not pushy.

SF: The MFA program stresses networking with other writers, forming editing and critiquing groups etc. What process are you using to bounce your work off others, etc.?

KS: I have always been in lots of critique groups. I think, especially when you are figuring out writing technique, your writing process and how to put a novel together, that is so important. Now I have two trusted critique partners that I trade manuscripts with. We critique and edit each other's work, proposals as well as full manuscripts. One is a fantasy author and one is a thriller author. But we understand each other's genre and intention as authors although our writing is very different.

It's important to find others that understand what you are trying to accomplish with your writing, and have respect for your story and your intended audience. Also, it's important to be confident enough in your writing that you don't take every suggestion, just the ones that make you sit up and say, "Oh! Yeah, that's true!" But equally as important is to listen and truly try to see what the suggestion means and where it comes from, and if it will improve your writing, and you as a writer.

SF: You live in rural Wisconsin. How important to you as a writer is where you live?

KS: I do, but actually when I wrote First, There Is A River I was commuting back and forth from Chicago to San Francisco. I think it's important to have a writing space you go to, at least for me. I can't write when I'm in a coffee shop or at the airport. I can edit, but as far as the actual first draft writing, I need quiet and the comfort of a known space.

SF: If you had to go back and "do it again" would you change anything? (about your life as a writer, about the novel, about marketing, etc., - anything?)

KS: Nothing. The good, the bad, the ugly. It all took me to where I needed to be.

WS: You are teaching a class devoted entirely to the short form this semester. What is about these very short pieces that you find engaging?

WS: You also publish frequently in this form. What are the special challenges in writing the shortshortshort?

BHR: In a shorter work, every word choice is more salient. Because the piece may consist of only 200 words, each word has a lot to accomplish. Each word had better be the right word. Also, longer works tend to be forgiving—or what I should really say is that the reader is more forgiving of flaws in a longer work. In very short prose, readers reasonably expect the writer to strive for perfection, and any shortcomings mar the experience in a way that one boring or sloppy chapter won't necessarily ruin a novel.

WS: In class we are reading works that fit the word count and yet may be fiction, nonfiction, or prose poetry. The line between the genres seems even more blurred when there are so few words. Do you think that assessment is accurate? If so, why do you think it is the case?

BHR: My friend Robert Hill Long asserts that these very short prose pieces are subversive by definition, that writing a very short prose piece is a small rebellion against the broader literary tradition. If he's right, then one aspect of this subversion could be a deliberate muddling of genre distinctions. I don't agree with Robert entirely—I think that there are many motivations for writing such short works. Not every writer of short prose works is rebelling against genre distinctions or prescriptive notions of what a story or poem or memoir is supposed to be. However, very short pieces do lend themselves to rebellions and protest and anarchy. If a writer wants to violate the reader's expectation about what a "story" is allowed to do, then writing short is a good strategy. The writer delivers the story fast, before the reader has a chance to object. "Wait a minute! This isn't what's supposed to happen in a story!" Too late! You've already read and enjoyed it on its own mysterious terms!

WS: Last year in workshop we started asking ourselves and each other, "Is this a story?" We came up with a number of "rules" about what constitutes story. In these pieces, even if you exclude prose poetry, there is a blatant flaunting of the rules. And yet, most of them seem satisfying. Do different criteria apply to shorter works or is there something else at play here?

BHR: I think that what students are experiencing is an example of creative destruction as it applies to education. In one year, the faculty helps you to establish the "rules" for how narrative seems to work. The next year, we show you texts that clearly work—that is, we read them with pleasure —but that violate those rules. Are the rules wrong? It's really up to the writer to resolve this for herself, but I do think that a lot of artists do themselves harm when they find or invent rules and resolve to stick to them.

If a story is broken, if you know it isn't working and don't know how to make it work, rules can be a handy aid for revision. Is there a character with a problem at the outset of the story? Is the problem one that can be stated as a yes-or-no question? Those questions reflect the rules of a certain kind of storytelling.

However, rules can also become a crutch. Work can be written so prescriptively, so slavishly to rule, that it becomes boring to the writer and to the reader. I think that whether they do it consciously or not, a lot of artists work to alternately identify and undermine the rules of their own art.

WS: One of the students recently asked, "How do I know if what I've written is a prose poem, essay, or fiction?" Well, how do I?

BHR: This may sound like a flip answer, but it's true. I sometimes don't know whether what I've written is a poem or a story, a horror story or a literary one, until I see where it's published. One of the lasting controversies in science fiction has always been, "What is science fiction?" Damon Knight had his tongue in his cheek when he offered the following definition, but there was a serious point behind his joke: "Science fiction is that literature to which I am pointing when I say 'science fiction.'"

We can discuss the differences. A prose poem is probably at least as concerned with the manner of the telling as what is told. In poetry, there is a focus on the language itself. A story has to narrate events. A non-fiction piece must be true. But a poem can also be narrative and true, so that a short narrative autobiographical incident that the writer has rendered in poetically compressed language might be called a prose poem, a flash fiction, or a brief memoir.

Years ago, I was talking to a member of the editorial board at Prism International. When I said that I wrote very short prose pieces, he suggested that I send them to the poetry editor. Why? Because Prism pays twice as much per published page for poetry as for fiction. I thought that "Border Crossings" was a story when I wrote it, but it was published in Prism as a poem. So the difference between a poem and a story is sixty dollars (Canadian).

WS: It has been interesting in class to see that different interpretations about the "true" meaning of these pieces. Do you think author intent is more oblique in shorter works?

BHR: I'm leery of talking about the author's intent when all that we have to go by is the marks that the author left on the page. It's much easier to speak of achieved effects. I do think that short forms often leave the reader with mysteries of significance to resolve, and that the writer of a short form may perhaps rely on readers to go back and read the piece more than once.

WS: Who, besides yourself, do you think is especially noteworthy for the quality of their short shorts?

BHR: Am I especially noteworthy for the quality of my short-shorts? I'm certainly noteworthy for persisting in thrusting them under the noses of readers!

Five writers whose short-shorts I especially like, for different reasons, are Richard Brautigan, Yasunari Kawabata, Jessica Treat, Joyce Carol Oates, and Barry Yourgrau.

WS: There are currently a lot of names floating around for short forms—flash, micro, etc. Is there any standard agreement about the difference between the different categories?

BHR: You can look at the first use of various terms. A "short-short story" was originally a story that would fit on one normally typeset page of Collier's Magazine. A "sudden fiction" was, I think, no longer than 2,000 words, and usually no more than about 1,500. A "flash fiction" was a story that would face on no more than two facing pages of the typical literary magazine, or 750 words. A "micro-fiction" was no more than 250 words.

However, the terms are now used by different editors to indicate a wide variety of different lengths. There is no real agreement.

WS: What does your crystal ball tell you about the future of this form in English-language publishing?

If I had a reliable crystal ball, I'd be at Ladbroke's right now putting a thousand pounds on the outcome of this weekend's Premier League football matches. I do think, though, that short-short forms are well suited to reading on a computer screen or listening on a podcast. Time is short. I think these small bites of fiction will continue to find an audience. But I also think that most readers prefer their fiction to be a totally immersive experience. Novels will continue to dominate publishing.